Dating Apps Aren't Why You're Still Single

If you've ever said, "The apps are trash," you're not alone. As a dating coach, Nicole hears it every day. And while dating apps can absolutely be frustrating, she and her husband, Joel, met on Bumble.  They believe modern dating gets blamed for the wrong problem.

In this episode, they compare the male and female experience of online dating, share what it was really like dating before they met each other, and explain why rejection, unrealistic expectations, and quick assumptions make dating feel harder these days.

You'll also hear:

• Why men and women often think they have it worse on dating apps
• The surprising "red flag" Joel got judged for
• Why you shouldn't spend weeks messaging before meeting in person
• How to build resilience instead of burning out
• Why the dating app is just a vehicle to get you on the date, not the place to build the relationship

Whether you're exhausted by modern dating, thinking about deleting the apps, or trying to figure out why finding a healthy relationship feels so difficult, this conversation offers a refreshing perspective and a little hope that your person might still be one swipe away.

Want some advice from Nicole + Joel?

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Facebook & Instagram: @iamnicolepowers
TikTok: @datingpowers 

Transcript

Nicole 0:04

Welcome back to Share the Pants. Today we're going to be talking about modern dating. And the most common sentiment that I hear as a dating coach is that modern dating is trash. The apps are trash.

Joel 0:20

I hate the apps.

Nicole 0:21

Yes. Joel's heard it all from me.

Joel 0:25

That's right.

Nicole 0:26

All the stories of all the crazy things that are happening on the apps with my clients. But also, we've been there. I mean, we met each other on Bumble. Yep. And both of us before we met each other weren't having the best time. It wasn't all sunshine and roses. No. At all. So, you know, something that I see in my with my clients, I, by the way, for those of you who don't know me, don't know my work, 80% of my clients are are female. 20% of my clients are male. And with my female clients, there's this real sense that they have it worse than the guys have it. And part of the reason I wanted you to do this podcast with me is because I really wanted the male perspective. Like it's equally crap.

Joel 1:14

Yeah, there's just different, it's different, that's for sure. Like you girls, I feel like are getting bombarded with likes or getting bombarded with matches. Yeah. Uh, and we're like, it's a lot tougher on the guys. Well, I mean, it's kind of unfair for me to say that because I was such a picky swiper. But I feel like that's true.

Nicole 1:31

I do too. I mean, I can say, like, you know, hearing from the the most common complaint from my male clients is that they're not getting enough matches. And it seems like the people that they want to connect with um either don't match with them or they don't respond to their messages. Um, a lot of my male clients feel like they put in a lot more work. My female clients actually feel like that too. I think it's across the board. Everybody feels like they're doing the most and not getting much in return. And that's exhausting. I mean, nobody wants to do all the work and feel like there's no benefit, which is it unfortunately feels like what dating can be out there in the dating streets these days. And people are either like really gung-ho. Something that I think is so funny about you and me is how opposite our dating habits were. Like I was on a mission, I was maxing out, I was on the free, I only I never paid for the apps, I only did free stuff, but I was like maxing out my swipes every single day. I was showing up and having conversations every single day. And Joel like didn't swipe on hardly anybody.

Joel 2:45

Yeah, I was very picky. I would like did do deep dives on profiles before I would before I would swipe. I like I don't know. I just wanted I didn't want to I didn't want to mess around. Like Yeah. I mean he didn't I have good intuition and and you do I feel like I know if something's gonna work out or not just based on someone's profile, which is which isn't necessarily true, probably not at all.

Nicole 3:08

But no, it's I would never tell my my clients to like you know if that if their profile's not perfect, don't swipe on them. That's like the opposite of what I teach. But in your case, your intuition is really good. And I mean he didn't even swipe right on me when he saw me the first time.

Joel 3:25

It took, yeah, I mean, well, to be fair, it was because I've I knew it was gonna be like real. Like I I was like, I I like close the app because so those of you that know, like Bumble will send you like emails with saying you have a match, and it'll tell you like it'll show you like a blurred out picture of that person. But you know, if you have two brain cells, you can kind of piece it together, and you when you see that, that's how fucking crazy I am. Like, I like I'm like I see that, and then I'll open the app and see and see that picture, and I'll try to like okay, this is definitely this person, so I know this is gonna be a match. So, like, you know, I want to and with you, like I knew it was gonna be like you better be serious about dating because I felt really strong about it. I was like, do you really want that's just so crazy thinking back that I was literally going through my head, like, are you really ready for a serious relationship or not? Because this is this is gonna be one. Yeah, I just knew it from a fucking profile.

Nicole 4:31

Well, I will say I wrote a really great profile and I helped my clients write really great profiles. So I was very intentional about what I wrote, I was very intentional about the you know, the pictures I chose. Like I felt like I told a story. Yeah. And and part of the story I told was, you better be fucking serious. I didn't say that.

Joel 4:50

And do please people, do not say things like, you better come right or not come at all, or you know, yeah, that's an instant swipe left for anyone like me that's like look like reading through profiles. If you do anything like that, and there's other deal, now I won't get too personal on different beliefs and stuff, but like, yeah, there's certain things that are just like insta, and that's definitely one of them.

Nicole 5:14

Yeah, but I did say that without saying it. Like the tone of my profile was was inviting and warm, right? But it also let him know what I was what I'm really looking for. Like obviously, you knew that I was looking for something.

Joel 5:30

Yeah, and that's what I was looking for too. I wanted someone that was serious. I'm not saying that. It's just yeah, it's the added it's the attitude. It's the attitude.

Nicole 5:36

Yeah, don't have an attitude. We there's a way to say those things in a much more inviting way rather than a you know attacking way. Yes. But you know, I think people like I was really gung-ho. I was like very like methodical about my my dating thing. You were very, you know, picky and strategic about and it's like who I was swiping on. Who you were swiping on.

Joel 6:00

Yeah.

Nicole 6:00

And I think a lot of people do that. Like, there's like two shades, right? Like all in or all out. And a lot of people are like, they don't even want to be on the apps, so they just never touch them. They're like, I'm not gonna do that. It's bullshit, so I'm not even gonna participate, which is fine if you have an another way to meet people. Like, we're introverts, so the apps were perfect. They're better, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joel 6:23

I like it better than traditional dating.

Nicole 6:26

I could sit around with no pants on watching Love Island.

Joel 6:29

Yeah.

Nicole 6:30

And, you know, which is a show that Joel doesn't watch. He's draws the line at Love Island.

Joel 6:35

Yeah, we'll not watch Love Island.

Nicole 6:36

Yeah. Um don't quit, like, don't avoid the apps just because I mean, honestly, dating across the board is hard because rejection is a part of dating. It's the biggest part of dating. Like you're gonna get a lot more no's.

Joel 6:51

That is true. And I had a big fear of rejection. Yeah, and that's it made dating really hard for for people like us, for people like me.

Nicole 6:58

Yeah, and me. I mean, I have rejection sensitivity as well.

Joel 7:01

So, like going up to a girl in a in a bar was like, you know, it was scary to me. And I would do it, but it was it took, you know, it took a lot. I was just as picky there as I was on the apps, like, you know.

Nicole 7:16

Yeah, we all have our insecurities, whether we're online or in real person. Yeah. It but yeah, I think, you know, we were I was thinking back to like, well, what did we do before the dating apps? Now I wasn't this is my crazy, like I had unsupervised, an unsupervised childhood, basically. Like I was I was a parentified child, and when I was 15 years old, I was in the online, that's like when AOL was like big, and I was like in the online AOL chat rooms. I met my high school boyfriend on AOL. Like, that is insane. That is not normal.

Joel 7:52

No, not in the not in the yeah, not in the 90s. I mean, if you're on AOL, yeah. If you know what AOL instant messenger is, then you know how long ago that was. That was.

Nicole 8:02

Yeah, I'm aging myself.

Joel 8:04

That's not normal.

Nicole 8:05

That's not normal. So I've always kind of had been like even before apps, like I did, you know, eHarmony and match and all those things, I've always been drawn to the apps. But the other way that I met people back in the day was going to dance clubs. And I was thinking about like the way a guy would show you in a dance club.

Joel 8:20

Oh yeah, just get up on it.

Nicole 8:22

Yeah, like put his dick right on your butt. That's right. And like that was like swiping right. Yeah. You know? And thinking like comparing those two things, I'm like, I'd rather be on my couch.

Joel 8:33

If she shakes it back, you're like, okay, yeah, she swipes right too.

Nicole 8:36

Yeah. Like I'm like, I'd rather be on the couch by myself.

Joel 8:40

She starts moseying away, then you know, well, that's a left for her.

Nicole 8:44

Exactly. And now I think the what the modern version of that is pickleball, which, you know, is probably a great in-person, maybe for some people. I am not athletic, so that was not gonna be my would not have met you at pickleball.

Joel 9:00

No. No, I've never played either, so we might.

Nicole 9:03

We might play someday. Yeah. Now that we've found each other, we might go together. I probably wouldn't have never gone by myself.

Joel 9:08

Right.

Nicole 9:08

But yeah.

Joel 9:09

I think we should.

Nicole 9:10

I think we should too. So because it is scary, because it is there's a lot of rejection, like, how did you get yourself in the right state of mind? Like, what was your motivation?

Joel 9:24

Uh, I mean, well, first of all, I mean, I was I had gotten to a place where I was where I was happy to be alone. I just kind of assumed I was gonna be alone. You know, I'm getting late 30s and I'm still single and I hadn't had a real serious relationship. And it was just like, well, I guess it's not gonna happen for me, but I am still lonely. So I would do like, you know, probably like a month at a time. I would do like a month of doing it, go on a couple dates, two or three dates, and then and then take another three or four month break.

Nicole 9:55

Yeah. Which I would prefer that. I would prefer clients to go at a pace that feels good to them than to just be like, fuck the apps, you know, because uh again, unless you have a a plan that's off app, the thing that I think breaks my heart the most is when people like what you just said of well, I guess I'm just gonna be alone forever. Yeah. And like, well, you don't have to be if you don't wanna be. You can if that's your choice.

Joel 10:23

Right. But for me, it wasn't as sad as that sounds. It was just, you know, I was happy alone, but I was also lonely. It's kind of a weird, I don't know.

Nicole 10:33

I think every single person knows what that is. Like you're happy alone. Well, if you're healthy, if you're a healthy single person, you're usually happy alone, but also you want something more. Yeah. You know, you want to I mean, I think not everybody wants a partner, but a lot of people do. I think we're designed for part. That's just my belief. I believe we're designed to do life together, not apart. Right. Um, but yeah, you have to wade through a lot of shit. No matter how you meet people, you do have to wade through wrong ones to get to the right one. And so, like, you know, there's this like fable of there are two kids on Christmas morning and they both wake up and in their rooms, you know, separate rooms, they there's just like manure everywhere. There's just a pile of shit. And one kid is like, What the why did I get like, why is there shit on my floor for Christmas morning? And the other kid's like, oh my god, there must be a pony in here somewhere. And I want you to be the kid that thinks there's a pony in there and starts shoveling the shit to get you to your pony, you know?

Joel 11:38

That's right.

Nicole 11:38

Like, and we both had to do it. Yeah.

Joel 11:41

And I think for me It's a good metaphor for anything in life. Yeah, really. Anything that you anything that gives you great satisfaction takes work.

Nicole 11:50

It does take work. Yeah. And I think too, like one one thing I a theory I'm kind of playing with right now in my coaching business and with my clients and seeing how it plays out. I honestly think those of us who work harder at the dating thing actually get an easier time in relationship. Like Joel and I both we didn't find each other. I was 41, almost I was on the cusp of 41 when we met. Joel was like 37. So, you know, we'd never been married, we didn't have any kids. We were kind of like anomalies. We were yeah, we were unicorns and that yeah, yeah. And that was another thing.

Joel 12:26

As you start to get older, if you have kids, or if you, you know, I remember, you know, dating a a girl that she had three kids, and I at that point I was like, well, I mean, if I'm gonna find someone, this is just the way it the way it's gonna be. So they're gonna have kids. But then, you know, I would find out that they didn't want to have a relationship with me because I didn't have kids and I wasn't ready for, you know, all that, all that responsibility.

Nicole 12:49

So Yeah, I mean, which isn't true because you would have made a great dad to those kids, but a lot of people do not take the time to find out what someone's capable of. They just go, Oh, you've never had kids, so you don't know what you're doing. And, you know, uh honestly, even me, when we were when we got to the stage of our relationship where we were talking about dating history, and I found out that you hadn't had a serious long-term relationship, you know, in adulthood, it was a little bit like, ooh, like there was a that sense of, is that a red flag?

Joel 13:25

I got that, I you know, that was always a uh insecurity of mine, a big insecurity of mine. It's like the longer you go without having that, the worse it gets.

Nicole 13:33

Right. And and then people like whether you're on the outside looking in or you're internalizing it yourself, like a lot of people go, Well, it's proof that you're bad at relationships. But the truth is you are excellent at relationships. You're way more equipped to be a husband than anyone I'd ever dated that had like a serious resume of I've had a two-year, three-year, whatever relationship. Like that means nothing.

Joel 14:02

Yeah.

Nicole 14:03

And I think people don't give each other enough time to find out like, what are you capable of? What do you come equipped with? And part of that, I do think the apps do make it easy. Like, oh, there's a thousand more people to be swiping on. So I can easily just be like, well, he's never had a relationship before. Next. Right. And you cut your nose off to spite your face, you know. So I think you have to like take the time to get to know somebody.

Joel 14:31

Yeah, for sure. I mean, deal breakers are deal, you know.

Nicole 14:34

Yes.

Joel 14:34

You're allowed to have your deal breakers.

Nicole 14:36

Absolutely. But I think like some deal breakers are less valid than others. Some are not based on some are based on assumption, not on what's actually true. And I think because people are so concerned with like they don't want to waste their time, you're like people could just be too quick out of an impulse of like, I don't want to waste time. I have to, you know, I have to find the right person. Right. Then you just like go through people without really getting to know them. And it's one thing I say a lot to my clients, like about the app specifically, is the app is a vehicle to get on a date. It is not the place to build a relationship. Like just have a conversation, establish some rapport, get on a fucking date. You don't know anything until you get on a date with that person.

Joel 15:27

Yeah.

Nicole 15:28

And that was one of the things I loved about you is we had one healthy, you know, solid conversation, not small talk. Right. And then you asked me on a date.

Joel 15:37

Yeah, that's the way I, you know, I would I've did it. Because I just, you know, I had my time wasted too many times and I was like, okay, well, I'm not gonna date like that anymore. I'm gonna date, you know, we're gonna have a if as long as there's a good back and forth, some good, you know, a good little combo, I'll, you know, pick something out of their profile that one of their common interests or or an interest, talk about that for you know, a few paragraphs or whatever, but no more than a day or two before like I'm asking you out on a date, because a I don't want to talk about all the conversation topics before the day. Then what the hell am I gonna talk about when we're in person?

Nicole 16:15

But yeah, and I think like it's so fun. This is you're proving my point right now about how well equipped you were. Like you've never had a dating coach, and what you like your methodology, what you did, have a converse, like start a conversation based on something they said in their profile, a common interest. Um, you know, have a good back and forth before you then move them into do you want to and then really like asking them on a date. That's exactly a proper date. A proper dinner date. Dinner date. Yes. Yeah, that's exactly like what I would teach a brand new male client who was coming into my world. That's what I would teach him to do. And you already did that. Like the fact that you hadn't had a relationship before and had never had a dating coach before. You just did in my in my viewpoint, you did it right, right? You did it right for me. And so, yeah, I think that you can't make assumptions based on someone's what they look like on paper, because some of the people who look the best on paper are complete douchebags in real life, you know? Yeah. So what's the moral of the story, Joel?

Joel 17:24

Just get, you know, get just dig through the shit and get on dates and eventually you're gonna find somebody.

Nicole 17:33

Get out there, use use whatever method.

Joel 17:35

Yeah, whatever method works. It doesn't have to be the apps, whatever. However, you have to do it.

Nicole 17:38

However, you want to meet people, but meet people and you know, know that dating does require stamina and it requires emotional resilience. And just put your reps in, get out there and do it, and it gets easier.

Joel 17:51

That's right. All right.

Nicole 17:54

Well, we'll see you next episode.