We Share the Pants Instead of Fighting Over Who Wears Them

Hear the story behind the name Share the Pants and what it actually means inside Nicole and Joel's marriage.

They talk about wanting a traditional courtship: chivalry, planned dates, clear pursuit, and intentionality without building a marriage around rigid gender roles or power struggles.

They also revisit the early dating moments that shaped their dynamic: Nicole breaking her own rules and asking Joel out, Joel telling her he wasn’t dating anyone else, Nicole admitting she still was, and the honest conversation that eventually helped them decide what they were building together.

In this episode, they unpack:

• Why traditional dating and traditional marriage are not the same thing
• How they handled different dating styles before becoming exclusive
• What sharing the pants looks like in real life
• Why healthy partnership doesn’t always mean 50/50
• How to build a relationship dynamic that actually fits both people

If you’ve ever felt like you don’t fit neatly into one relationship box — too romantic to be fully modern, too independent to be fully traditional — this episode will help you think about love, leadership, partnership, and compatibility in a more honest way.

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Transcript

Joel 0:03

Welcome back to Share the Pants. In this episode, we're sharing the story behind our podcast name and what sharing the pants actually means inside our marriage. We wanted old school dating, but we never wanted a traditional marriage. Those two things sound contradictory to a lot of people, but for us, they make perfect sense.

Nicole 0:20

I landed on this name, Share the Pants, because I knew that I wanted a relationship that was a true partnership and was more a dynamic of teamwork. I think a lot of couples face a lot of power struggle in their relationships, and I didn't want that kind of dynamic. And Joel and I, I thought like we both wanted in our dating lives, we both pretty much wanted a traditional courtship. Like I wanted somebody who would plan the dates, who would make the first moves, who would be chivalrous and be a gentleman. I wanted kind of an old-fashioned love affair, but I knew I didn't want like a traditional gender role relationship in the long term. And something that surprised me when we were thinking about what share the pants means to us as a couple, why we called the podcast that. One of the things we asked ourselves was when did we actually start sharing the pants in our relationship? And it turns out it happened a lot earlier in our courtship than I thought it would.

Joel 1:20

Right. Yeah. So I mean it was that way. It was traditional in the very, in the very beginning. It would have been our first four dates, but our third date, Nicole jumped the gun.

Nicole 1:29

Yeah.

Joel 1:30

And yeah.

Nicole 1:31

And I asked him out on the third date. I broke all my own rules.

Joel 1:34

Before I could ask her out.

Nicole 1:35

Yeah. And I paid a consequence because he was planning to take me to a Goo Goo dolls, I thought it was so hard for me to say, Goo goo dolls concert, which I really would have loved to go to. Yeah. And instead we had an at-home date at my house.

Joel 1:52

Watching Moulin Rouge.

Nicole 1:53

Yeah. Which turned out amazing. Yeah.

Joel 1:55

But was great.

Nicole 1:56

You know, if I had stuck to the plan, I would have been at a concert.

Joel 2:00

Yeah, but from in my opinion, whenever you said that, I was like, well, this is better, you know, anyways. It gives us a chance to really be, you know, more intimate and had our first real make out session, which was which was great. And sing along to to Moulin Rouge.

Nicole 2:15

Yeah, which was crazy because I am terrified of singing in public or in front of people. And I was like belting singing along with Nicole Kidman, you know, during that movie. And I couldn't believe I was doing it. Like I was like, what the hell? Like, I'm just like, I just went for it, man.

Joel 2:30

That was great. I loved it.

Nicole 2:32

And I love that you loved it. So yeah.

Joel 2:36

But that was also the date that where I, you know, made my intentions kind of known. Well, I I just basically told you that I was not dating other people, which is just the way that I dated on the apps, period. Like once I was in a conversation with somebody, once once I had a date planned, like every all other communication pretty much shut down. Unless I had, which never happened, so it didn't end up being the case. But if I had two dates planned, that would be different. But but yeah, basically, once I had a date planned, I'm not gonna pursue anything else. And I just let her know that. And then she got really uncomfortable when I said that.

Nicole 3:12

Because I was dating other people, and I had this moment of like panic and freeze of like, uh-oh, should I tell him? Should I keep it a secret? And and I think like I'm not good at keeping secrets, so I was like, I'm just gonna tell him the truth. I was like, Well, I am still dating other people, and I wasn't ready to stop yet because it was only our third date. Yeah, and I I really appreciated your intentionality, like the fact that you were communicating with me what you were up to, and you weren't asking me for anything. No, but I did feel like it, you know, I I was not because you put me on the spot, but I felt like, oh shit, like now I've got to tell him that our dating styles are totally different, and I didn't know how you were gonna feel about that.

Joel 3:57

Right. Well, I mean, it in the in the end it just made me more competitive. But, you know, I was maybe taken aback. I was taken aback a little bit, but it wasn't anything crazy. You weren't doing anything crazy. It was our third date. Like, you know, I'm not like, oh my God, I can't believe she's seeing other people, but just in the back of my head, I'm like, well, this is feels so good to me. Like that's weird that she's, you know, can act like this with me and then have another person still on the table.

Nicole 4:21

Yeah. And for me, I had been through a long, like my MO in dating was if I like somebody, even a little bit, just like, you know, if we were getting along and they liked me and they asked me to be their girlfriend, I would just say yes without thinking about what does that mean to them? What does it mean to me? Yeah. Am I ready to take that step? I would just be excited and be like, yeah, I'll be your girlfriend. And what happened time after time after time was I would end up having to break up with this person because their definition of commitment and what it looks like to progress a relationship, like they wanted to lock me down, but not give me anything as a result of that. Like, so you know, I would have to go through these breakups that felt unnecessary. And at some point I was like, I am not doing that again. Like, I am going to make sure this next time that if somebody wants to be committed, I know what that means. And so I was like, you know, I was pretty, I was very dedicated to that mission. And so no matter how I felt about you, which I felt the exact same you felt. Yeah. Like you were definitely the front runner. I was, I mean, from our first date, like I had chills, and I was like, oh my God, if this isn't the one, like I don't know what the fuck this is, you know? And but I was just like, I'm not gonna let my heart, which is totally understandable.

Joel 5:39

Yeah, there's a lot of people. You know, like absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Nicole 5:41

My romantic side got the best of me one too many times. Right.

Joel 5:44

Understood.

Nicole 5:44

Yeah.

Joel 5:45

So I put the pants back on for date number four, and you know, had a nice, proper date, picked her up and took her to Shakespeare in the park and and very fancy restaurant.

Nicole 5:58

It was beautiful.

Joel 5:59

With my intentions of, you know, telling her like I want to be exclusive. Uh pretty early on, I realized that wasn't gonna happen. It wasn't anything, I was just hinting towards things, feeling it out, putting out feelers, and I realized pretty early, well, it's not gonna happen tonight, so let's just have a good time. And we did.

Nicole 6:16

It was a great day. Yeah.

Joel 6:17

So the next day I text you telling you that what my intentions truly were, and that I I wanted to be exclusive and that wanted you to be my girlfriend. And basically, what do we need to do to what do I need to do to kick this up a notch, get it going, basically kick this other guy to the curb.

Nicole 6:36

Yeah, yeah. When did you use the word jabroni? At some point you're like, try to get rid of this other jabroni.

Joel 6:43

Yeah, at some point, probably several times.

Nicole 6:44

Yeah. And I I loved that because I it was the first time I felt like you really handed me the pants. Like, okay, what I'm doing isn't completely getting me what I want. So, like, what do you need? And I felt like it gave me the power to tell you what I needed, and also it really started this atmosphere of co-creation between us. And I was like, what I need is to know a lot more about you. And so, like, would you be cool with me asking you 50 questions, basically, which can wear people out. And I even gave you an out. Like, I asked you if you'd ever seen the movie for the love of the game, and I like, you know, and you were like, Yes. And I was like, remember that scene with Kelly Preston? She's like asking Kevin Costner all these questions, and at some point he's just like, no more questions.

Joel 7:32

No more questions.

Nicole 7:33

And I was like, you can say that if you need me to stop. Like, but you were game, you were totally like, Yeah, you can ask me anything.

Joel 7:39

That's right.

Nicole 7:40

And so I did. I just peppered you with questions through text messages on our next dates. And once I felt really satisfied that I knew what your vision of relationship is and that mine matched, and some things, like I would ask you something, and I would feel like you like literally ripped a page out of my journal and read it back to me. And I'd be like, what the fuck? Like, how does he know the answers? And what's even crazier, we recently discovered the coolest example of this. Now, keep in mind, this was after the podcast had already been named. We'd been working on it for months. I was in my office working one day, and Joel burst in and was like, You are never gonna believe what I just found.

Joel 8:21

Yeah, so I was looking through our old text messages trying to find some of those questions that you had asked me. And this was in our first month of dating, and your birthday was coming up, and I told you that you make the rules. And you said, I make the rules for my birthday or for forever. I said, Forever is a big word. I want to make the rules sometimes, winky face emoji. Winky face emoji. You said, good, I don't want to make the rules or wear the pants. And then I said, I like to share my pants.

Nicole 8:49

What? And then I sent a little jiffy of us hopping in a potato sack race together, like, you know, like a little team. And I cannot believe, like, how crazy is that that I thought I named this podcast. But really, in our first month of dating, we were foreshadowing this moment right now. And being able to ask you all of those questions and hear your answers really gave me the reassurance that I needed to know that we are compatible. And if I took myself off the market, it would be worth it because there was an element of like, I mean, you are my ideal type. You're very attractive. And I didn't want my lust and my my I didn't want my feelings for you to get the better of me. And I the other guy on the table at the time was really good on paper. I wasn't as attracted to him, but he like at the time I knew he would make a good husband. I wasn't sure if you were gonna make a good husband, and like my I wanted to be married, and so I I needed to know stuff. And and it was cool. I'm glad that that worked out that way because it really like opened up a vision that we started to create together of like what do we want our relationship to look like. Right. And I think all couples should do that. I mean, like we really got to kind of create something from scratch. We we created our own pants.

Joel 10:22

That's right.

Nicole 10:23

Except for I don't wear pants. I actually hate pants. But I mean, it is a good metaphor, though, for how we work as a team and how we complement each other. Like where I have some strengths, you have some weaknesses, and where I have some weaknesses, you have some strengths. And so really, like share the pants is kind of our thing.

Joel 10:44

Right.

Nicole 10:45

And we both agree that like that dynamic probably doesn't work for everybody. It's what works for us, and so we're not here to like say, you know, sharing the pants is how you have a healthy, happy marriage. That's how everybody should do it. This is the way.

unknown 11:00

Yeah.

Nicole 11:01

We're not we're not saying that we honor all sorts of relationship dynamics and and there's not one right way.

Joel 11:08

Absolutely. But this way We may have strong opinions, but yeah, we definitely have strong opinions. Singularly or together, but yeah. But yeah, that doesn't mean it's and we don't agree on everything. Yeah, no, and it doesn't mean it's right when we talk about sharing, sharing the pants, you know, or you know, wanting to wear the pants all the time, you know, we ask ask ourselves the question, well, why? You know, why do we like to do that? I mean, God, it is I don't want to make the rules all the time. You know, that sounds exhausting.

Nicole 11:35

Yeah.

Joel 11:36

I you know, I don't want to get my way all the time. I don't, you know, that would get super boring.

Nicole 11:41

It would be super boring. Like, yeah, this is my house and you're just living in it, you know.

Joel 11:45

Why not just be why not be single?

Nicole 11:48

Exactly. So yeah, and I I would be exhausted too. Like, first of all, I'm very indecisive. And so if I had to make all the decisions, all the rules, even when I think I'm right, like something in me is very collaborative. Like, even if I think I'm right, I still want to know like how you feel about it. You know, is that okay with you if we do it this way? Like, sure.

Joel 12:11

Yeah.

Nicole 12:11

You know, I want I want you to be happy.

Joel 12:13

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Nicole 12:14

And so I think, you know, part of sharing the pants for me is like really about being like co-creating together. Like, I want to make sure that the dynamic is something that we both have influence over. And I grew up in a home where, you know, my grandparents were pretty, not pretty, they were very traditional. My grandfather made all the money, and my grandmother was the housewife. She stayed home, she raised the children, she cooked, she cleaned. Those were, you know, it was pretty traditional. And I s they weren't happy. Like they were, they loved each other, but they didn't like each other. Yeah. And they didn't really enjoy spending time together. And I I felt like those traditional rules, like I could see, like, at least for them, that it wasn't really working. There was like a power struggle. And I didn't want that, I didn't want to recreate that in my own marriage. Yeah. And I think, you know, just looking at human nature, people have different strengths and weaknesses. And like, as much as in sort of this fantasy land, I think in high school, like I did kind of want to be a stay-at-home wife who raised babies and and you know, the man provided, and I did all the like homemaking. That was my fantasy. But honestly, like as I grew up, I realized I don't like doing any of that stuff.

Joel 13:31

You hate the kitchen.

Nicole 13:32

I hate the kitchen. I took a sewing class in college, really sucked at it. What else? I I mean, I will clean because I like a clean environment, but cleaning's not my favorite activity.

Joel 13:44

Cleaning is the one thing that we both really don't. First of all, we do keep a clean house. We keep, we, you know, we keep things picked up and then and we deep clean like once a month. Yeah, exactly. So but we sh you know, we share that part together.

Nicole 13:56

50-50. Right.

Joel 13:58

That is a that's probably the one true 50-50 that we do.

unknown 14:02

Yeah.

Nicole 14:02

So sharing the pants for us doesn't look like an equal divide of like we both contribute exactly the same way. Like I contribute what I'm good at and Joel contributes what he's good at. Yeah. And we're I think we're both happier because of that. Like we're not forcing each other to do things that actually aren't strengths of ours. Like if I had to cook all the time, I would just be resentful because A, I suck at it, so it makes me feel like shit. And B, I would just be like, why am I the only one who has to do this?

Joel 14:33

I don't think you suck at it. You just get frustrated.

Nicole 14:36

I do, and I make a mess and I burn myself and I cut my like I just am a disaster in the kitchen.

Joel 14:41

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I probably do 70, 75% of the cooking. Yeah, I would say.

Nicole 14:46

Yeah.

Joel 14:47

But yeah.

Nicole 14:47

But when it comes to conflict, yes. I'm the boss.

Joel 14:52

She's the boss. She yeah. You know, I've been I I'm home right now with my back. Had a had a back accident, fell off a ladder, and actually broke his back. Yeah, broke my back. Small fracture, yeah.

Nicole 15:03

But yeah, but still, it's painful and lots of things you can't do right now.

Joel 15:08

She's been picking up the slack for me, you know. Yeah. Some of the stuff I do around the house.

Nicole 15:12

And that's the other thing, sharing the pants. You you have there is that give and take. If somebody's down, you gotta step up.

Joel 15:17

Right. But having her at you know, doctor's appointments has been has been great because she's, you know, ask the tough questions, whereas I'll just like, you know, get me out of here. Just I don't want to ask too many, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, you know, just tell me what what's what. And but those questions are, you know, really beneficial.

Nicole 15:35

Yeah, and he does want to know the answer. Yeah. He just doesn't want to like ask or have to. Yeah, or if the doctor says something that he doesn't really think is right, he's not necessarily gonna push back where I'll be like, no.

Joel 15:47

Yeah. The first example of that was was we had a contractor here doing some work on the house, and he was trying to screw us over big time and wanted us to p pay him an extra like two grand or something. And and I was like, you know, I think we compromised like 1500 or something, and I was like, let's just pay the man, let's get out of this situation. And you were like, No.

Nicole 16:06

I was like, absolutely.

Joel 16:08

We are not paying this man another fucking cent.

Nicole 16:10

No, I was adamant that we are not paying him.

Joel 16:14

This dude came back and he raised hell.

Nicole 16:15

Yeah, he like put us on Facebook Live. Put us on social media being a complete psycho.

Joel 16:21

Yeah.

Nicole 16:21

And I hired a lawyer.

Joel 16:23

Threatened to sue, and yeah, Nicole, she she hired a lawyer and just sent him one letter, and that was the last we heard of him. Because, you know, he wasn't licensed or, you know, none of that matters. But the point is, yeah, she Yeah, if you come for us, she saved us about $1,500.

Nicole 16:36

Yeah. I'm a fighter. If I think something's wrong, like I will die on that hill. I will fucking go after you.

Joel 16:45

Yep.

Nicole 16:46

Don't come for us. I will come for you back. And he was wrong. Like he was trying to, he was actually trying to commit insurance fraud and get us to like do that too. And I was like, absolutely not. We're not doing it. And then he's tried to, yeah. So it I definitely like Joel doesn't really like to, you know, cause a ruckus with strangers. Like, yeah, you're not you like conflict is not your favorite thing.

Joel 17:12

But in our relationship, whenever we go buy a new car, you're gonna be there.

Nicole 17:16

That's right. I'll be the negotiator.

Joel 17:18

Yeah.

Nicole 17:19

But I think like, you know, I do want to note that inside of our relationship, you're willing because you're not conflict avoidant with me, right? And with people that are important to you. You're willing to go there and you're willing to do that. But he would have just paid the $1,500 and been like, whatever, dude.

Joel 17:33

We just won't hire this guy again.

Nicole 17:35

Yeah. And I was like, no, no fucking way. And and because for me, like I don't love conflict either, but it doesn't cost me what it c like it's inside my comfort zone. Right. And so the kitchen is where I'll have a meltdown, but then like having to hire a lawyer, I'm like, yeah, let's I'm all about it. Let's go. That fires me up. Yeah. And it like I have motivation there. And so we use we use our strengths to our advantage in in this relationship to get what needs to get done done. Right. You know, like we share the burden of adulting.

Joel 18:10

That's right. You know, decision making is another big one, I'd say.

Nicole 18:14

Yeah.

Joel 18:14

You don't like to make decisions. Nope. I I don't again, I don't want to make them all the time. And and when you feel passionately about something that you want to decide, you'll, you know, you'll you'll let that be known. But but yeah, most of the time it's it's me. You're you just like, I don't want to choose, you pick.

Nicole 18:32

Yeah.

Joel 18:33

Like I'm like, okay.

Nicole 18:35

I'm happy. I'm usually and plus I'm usually happy with your choices. Like I feel like you do know me really well and you choose things that are in my best interest. Yeah. But if I will procrastinate the decision, I'll overthink it for about a hundred days, and Joel will just make it. Yeah. You know. So that's that's helpful. And you like to drive everywhere, and I like to be a passenger princess. So that works for us. Like, yeah. Yeah. So there we definitely have a lot of traditional stuff, but then we have a lot of untraditional stuff too. And I thought that was gonna be a problem. Like when I was dating when I was single, you know, I kind of would joke inside of myself, like I didn't say this to anybody, but I would just think like, well, I'm like half trad wife and half feminist. Like, who's gonna want that? You know, like like I don't fit in a box, and I felt like kind of like a little weirdo.

Joel 19:23

I think I don't think most people fit in a box. I don't think so either, but you like it gets so sensationalized, you know, everything is so black and white. It's not that's not the way the world is.

Nicole 19:33

I don't think that's the way the world is either. But I it's easy to get like hypnotized by what you see on social media or what you think other people are doing or what's on movies. Like it's just easy to be like, oh, I don't fit in a box. Is I am I gonna be able to find somebody who also doesn't fit in a box, but then fits inside a box with me, right? Like who's gonna I I mean, cooking, for example. I was afraid like I will not be able to find the kind of husband I want because he'll want me to have he'll want me to cook. You know, and that's not true. Like, I I get a lot of benefits of you being a more traditional husband in some ways, but in that way, like you're not, and that's perfect for me. So we just we won. I feel like we won the lottery. I won the lottery.

Joel 20:22

Yeah, exactly. We're perfect for each other. Yeah, we're perfect.

Nicole 20:25

We're definitely not perfect, but we are perfect for each other. That's right. Yeah. And we certainly aren't perfect podcasters. We are just getting started, but hopefully, today's episode gave you a little taste of who we are. And I hope you come back and hang out with us again as we unpack all things love and relationships.

Joel 20:44

That's right. And don't forget to submit your listener questions. We're super excited to get to answer those, hopefully, on air.

Nicole 20:50

Uh yeah.

Joel 20:51

So there should be a link in the show notes. So, yeah, go click on that and give us your questions.

Nicole 20:57

And we'll see you when we see you. That's right. Bye. Bye.